tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post2032632795753767147..comments2022-04-11T20:34:56.519-07:00Comments on Gamer By Design: [WoW] Raiding in Warlords: The Good, The (Maybe) Bad, The StrangeTalarianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-49325675429713920692014-05-04T20:32:31.220-07:002014-05-04T20:32:31.220-07:00Even Normal Raiders will prefer an LFR set piece o...Even Normal Raiders will prefer an LFR set piece over a Warforged/Thunderforged Normal piece. I swapped out a 567 Warforged helmet for an LFR 536 tier helmet so I could get my 4pT16 bonus on my Holy Paladin because yes, it is THAT powerful.<br /><br />Trinkets, I'm still running LFR for a shot at the LFR Prismatic Prison of Pride because again, so immensely powerful. http://wowhead.com/item=102299<br /><br />For my Enhancement Shaman, I managed to nab the LFR version of the Assurance of Consequence trinket (http://wowhead.com/item=102292), which upped my DPS by about 30,000 on its own. <br /><br />As you say yourself, those trinkets and tier bonuses are more important than ilvl. Which just argues the point that even Normal raiders feel compelled to run LFR to get them.<br /><br />I think your far stronger points are the ones that talk about stratifying the playerbase and the inconsistency with the PvP model.<br /><br />Blizzard is still pretending that PvP and PvE are the same game, when really they haven't been for years, and I think this philosophy difference in when tier pieces become available underscores that unless they've really finally solved the whole PvE players want PvP gear and vice versa.<br /><br />Stratifying the playerbase and making it harder for players to jump into higher levels of raiding I think depends on the difficulty gap between tomorrow's normal and tomorrow's LFR. But do keep in mind that Blizzard does claim that Heroic 5-Man gear will be sufficient to perform in Normal/Heroic (but not necessarily Mythic), so perhaps it's no big deal. Granted, as we already discussed, it's a little at odds with the fact that H5M gear is less ilvl, but even then, LFR should be more than sufficient to make the jump if it's better than H5M gear.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-14051345304632560832014-05-03T04:01:36.082-07:002014-05-03T04:01:36.082-07:00"I don't know many normal-mode raiders wh..."I don't know many normal-mode raiders who felt compelled to get a new set bonus or particular trinket through LFR, seeing as they were already decked out in a set bonus from the last raid tier, so their concern about raiding compulsion feels hollow."<br /><br />That's absolutely been the case because the new set bonus is so much better. It's happened in every tier -- even heroic raiders would often go for LFR pieces from the next raid (not all, just the ones with game-changing set bonuses).Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-46800945265545272272014-05-02T22:18:42.220-07:002014-05-02T22:18:42.220-07:00Nice post. Reading about this makes me want to pla...Nice post. Reading about this makes me want to play WoW again.Trisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-2057679371743828242014-05-02T14:14:17.656-07:002014-05-02T14:14:17.656-07:00I agree on the heroic dungeons -- strange move, pr...I agree on the heroic dungeons -- strange move, probably dumb. And while I don't care either way on trinkets, I really disagree with their decision to remove tier gear from LFR.<br /><br />The primary problem is inconsistency. They just admitted in their PVP blog post that they needed to get people into gear with the PVP set bonus earlier, and to that end, they were improving its accessibility. Yet they're going the opposite way for PVE, first by removing tier from vendors and now removing it from the lowest raid difficulty, and they haven't really explained why.<br /><br />It's already lower ilvl, usually has crappier color themes, and has that dreaded "raid finder" branded across its tooltip. But with plenty of animosity between hardcore and casual players already, what's the point? One last wedge between the peasants and the bourgeoisie? I don't know many normal-mode raiders who felt compelled to get a new set bonus or particular trinket through LFR, seeing as they were already decked out in a set bonus from the last raid tier, so their concern about raiding compulsion feels hollow. The overall message is, "Sorry, but you're not cool enough to get a set bonus anymore."<br /><br />And those set bonuses are important for people starting out: frequently more important than the gear ilvl. I'm sure some of us have dithered over breaking a set bonus until we had a full (or at least 2-piece) replacement. They frequently change play styles or open up new options. Perhaps just as importantly, they're a goal (if occasionally a yardstick) for players to meet, so that they feel ready to step into higher difficulties once they've at least got their set bonus and a weapon. They form an important bridge between LFR and Flex that allows players to feel like raiders, instead of mere tourists.<br /><br />So while Blizzard may want to cement LFR as Baby's First Raid, I think this change will solidify the strata too much. It's already annoying enough to get into a Flex group if you're new and starting from LFR, and further divisions between LFR and Flex can only make things worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-67917061513382558422014-05-01T14:45:49.881-07:002014-05-01T14:45:49.881-07:00You've mortally wounded me with your violent a...You've mortally wounded me with your violent agreement, good sir. Farewell, cruel world.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-3863249038906805532014-05-01T13:55:36.565-07:002014-05-01T13:55:36.565-07:00Yeah, sorry, kinda derped there. I think we're...Yeah, sorry, kinda derped there. I think we're, as my coworkers like to say, "violently in agreement" here. Too much sun, I think.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-66620474814732066802014-05-01T13:40:27.064-07:002014-05-01T13:40:27.064-07:00"Sorry, terminology confusion. Normal today, ..."Sorry, terminology confusion. Normal today, Heroic tomorrow. I doubt most 10N raids today are running with deep benches."<br /><br />Ah, gotcha. You said "Heroic will likely still favor" so...<br /><br />"1) if you're already playing near the top of your game like the World-first folk, then gear helps."<br /><br />I'm not sure I'd call that a counterpoint since that is exactly what I said :P<br /><br />"I've observed a common (albeit misconceived) perception that folks "can't do the content because [they] don't have enough gear" from plenty of folks in my guild."<br /><br />Not sure that's a counterpoint either, since I was trying to make it clear that common perception is in fact incorrect.<br /><br />So, uh...sure? I guess?Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-30236844019853810572014-05-01T13:25:57.608-07:002014-05-01T13:25:57.608-07:00"FYI, Heroic Raiding currently does NOT favor..."FYI, Heroic Raiding currently does NOT favor static rosters with no bench -- I don't know of a single heroic guild that runs with exactly 10 or 25 people. Some hardcore 10 mans get by with 11 but most run 12-13 and 25 mans run 30-35 people."<br />~Sorry, terminology confusion. Normal today, Heroic tomorrow. I doubt most 10N raids today are running with deep benches.<br /><br />"Oh, and FWIW, unless you're 14/14H at the moment then improving your play will make a far larger difference in your performance than going up by 5-10 ilvl. Normal SoO is clearable in 530 ilvl or so with a good group, possibly less. More gear gives more cushion for error but the gear isn't what is holding people back 99% of the time."<br />~Agreed, but two counterpoints: 1) if you're already playing near the top of your game like the World-first folk, then gear helps. 2) Better gear can be used in lieu of improving your skills. I've observed a common (albeit misconceived) perception that folks "can't do the content because [they] don't have enough gear" from plenty of folks in my guild.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-43703604312957549662014-05-01T13:20:16.150-07:002014-05-01T13:20:16.150-07:00"Nobody wants to be the person who’s holding ..."Nobody wants to be the person who’s holding everyone else back, and since the game is largely gear-based, it creates an incentive for players to run as many difficulties as they can to get more loot."<br /><br />Oh, and FWIW, unless you're 14/14H at the moment then improving your play will make a far larger difference in your performance than going up by 5-10 ilvl. Normal SoO is clearable in 530 ilvl or so with a good group, possibly less. More gear gives more cushion for error but the gear isn't what is holding people back 99% of the time.<br /><br />I'm not saying gear doesn't help, but it's less of a big deal than most people think in almost all cases.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-29993541854527641772014-05-01T11:38:09.613-07:002014-05-01T11:38:09.613-07:00"I feel like Heroic raiding will likely still..."I feel like Heroic raiding will likely still favor static rosters with no bench, as having that solid core of people is still really important at higher difficulties."<br /><br />FYI, Heroic Raiding currently does NOT favor static rosters with no bench -- I don't know of a single heroic guild that runs with exactly 10 or 25 people. Some hardcore 10 mans get by with 11 but most run 12-13 and 25 mans run 30-35 people.<br /><br />"I’m already on record as stating that game designers can absolutely influence the community and player behavior via game design."<br /><br />Indeed.<br /><br />"Ion is on record that Tier 17 Mythic gear will be better than Tier 18 Normal gear, so if that’s the case, later tiers in the expansion bring the number of raid difficulties with upgrades down to two, which might be just fine in the long term."<br /><br />I'm still worried about tier sets and trinkets, though, which may make T18N lower ilvl gear superior to T17M.<br /><br />"But apparently LFR 6.0 loot will have a higher ilvl than 5-Man Heroics."<br /><br />I don't get this either. I thought their whole point was that if you were a normal or above (so normal/heroic/mythic) raider then you could only do 5 man heroics and completely skip LFR.<br /><br />We'll see, I suppose.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-8209659902470107122014-05-01T11:34:58.149-07:002014-05-01T11:34:58.149-07:00If it's anything like MoP, the problem will re...If it's anything like MoP, the problem will really only exist in the first tier. But given Blizzard wants 5-Mans to be a little more prominent, I wouldn't be surprised to see more drop halfway through the expansion.<br /><br />If he loot is only 8 ills below LFR, it might be okay? You're still stuck running LFR for a couple weeks, but quickly the rest of your gear will be filled with H 5-Man gear? But then we're still required to run LFR :(<br /><br />I don't really know. It's a gnarly problem, because I think with daily instead of weekly lockouts on Heroic 5-Mans (and no lockouts for random), Watcher is right that it would kill LFR... Maybe the solution is to introduce similar lockouts on 5-mans? Or reduce the lockouts on LFR and bring the loot ilvl down a bit further as well as the drop rate?Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-46747062165027931852014-05-01T11:06:40.548-07:002014-05-01T11:06:40.548-07:00I'm very disappointed by the decision to have ...I'm very disappointed by the decision to have heroic dungeon gear be lower than LFR; all it means is that things there will stay the same. Dungeons will quickly be be obsolete and if you want to maximize your gear (aka the issue they were trying to fix by splitting LFR from other raids) you'll have to run LFR. "But you don't HAVE to," they will say, and in response we give the same reason THEY realized when they decided to change LFR: You don't HAVE to, but you'd be stupid not to.Clockworkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00565064315360664711noreply@blogger.com