tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post4710068721263906042..comments2022-04-11T20:34:56.519-07:00Comments on Gamer By Design: Dear Blizzard, I'm Not Asking For a Quest About Woman's Suffrage or the Stonewall RiotsTalarianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-55495213524848279912014-05-28T15:33:49.399-07:002014-05-28T15:33:49.399-07:00Yeah, Blizzard's excuse is that they're no...Yeah, Blizzard's excuse is that they're not narrative-driven, they're gameplay-driven. Yet they're trying to build a world nonetheless. I think this is what's driven them to make an alternate-universe Draenor, which frankly, is pretty comic-bookish and boring, and does little to forward the narrative.<br /><br />So sure, they're not narrative-focused, but frankly I think it's hurting them and their brand.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-46663864030728309112014-05-28T15:32:13.681-07:002014-05-28T15:32:13.681-07:00Sylvanas is an interesting case. Being killed and ...Sylvanas is an interesting case. Being killed and resurrected as undead against her will certainly helped shape her character. I really would like to see Blizz do more with her. I think she's a good example of a badass character that respects her gender relatively well and still pulls off the calculating villain role quite nicely.<br /><br />And yeah, comic books are actually a bit more progressive these days than even Blizzard is, oddly enough. I mean, don't get me wrong, they take a lot of deserved heat for some of the things they do, but at least there are still bad-ass ladies (albeit still mostly in strange, body-warping poses), and LGBT folks.<br /><br />Excellent points on the diverse conflict drivers issue. I wonder if WoW struggles with that because their cast is SO large? Makes it hard to have even big characters to have more than a couple of lines each. Not saying it's an excuse, but for a game like "Last of Us" which focuses on an extremely small cast, you can afford to spend a lot of time building those characters and developing motivations. I find fantasy novels with too many characters suffers from the same problem.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-47873639543299395702014-05-28T00:38:58.341-07:002014-05-28T00:38:58.341-07:00Sad to see this kind of lame excuse being given bu...Sad to see this kind of lame excuse being given but then I find Blizzard's narrative development has been lazy of late as well, Warlords of Draenor was a total turn-off for me, and I started in TBC era so should be a sure-fire fan. Regardless of game system pro's and con's I find Bioware and (even) Cryptic's writers do a much better job at writing engaging stories than Blizzard's team is managing - even the Pandaria arc didn't impress me that much despite its slick presentation. <br /><br />The company needs to get over the white, male, heavy-metal obsessed cliché for both its fans and its developers and start producing something a little less stereotypical in the story front as well!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-23551301369316137702014-05-27T10:33:40.474-07:002014-05-27T10:33:40.474-07:00This post left me with a few thoughts, but I'l...This post left me with a few thoughts, but I'll do my best to be concise. <br /><br />1. Sylvanas is a freakin' badass. She was a bad mama before being undeadified, and she's hard as nails now. My first wow character was undead, and despite being a story-ignoring quest-text skipping philistine, I absolutely LOVED Sylvanas, and read every bit of her dialogue. I don't even play wow anymore, but I still consider myself in service to The Dark Lady. She should go in the GG, WP column for Blizzard's female character issue.<br /><br />I'm shocked to see all the dodging and excuses from Blizz execs. Not even GOOD dodging and excuses. Comic books are more diverse and inclusive than Mr. Pardo seems to realize. There are women in your life, sir, even if they aren't in your office, and I'm sure a few of them wouldn't object to giving some constructive feedback on dialogue, storylines, or character models. Also, you have a QA department - panel discussions are easy enough to put together.<br /><br />I don't want token or representative diversity. I want complex characters who's unique perspectives are the product of their diverse backgrounds, challenges and choices. Race, gender, sexual preference, loyalties and animosities can all be conflict drivers that produce interesting characters for me to interact with. Just don't give me "the gay one." The same goes for what a character wears. WHY is she wearing a chain mail bikini? If the answer makes sense for the character and the setting, go for it, but "because it looks cool" is a cop out. <br /><br />I want deep, complex characters motivated by their experience and outlook, who interact with their world and it's inhabitants in ways that make sense and drive the story. I want to understand and empathize with their motivations, whether they are a hero or a villain. Truly diverse characters make a game more engaging and meaningful for me as the player, and that's the goal, right? Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528041261411665995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-6489795535615653372014-05-24T18:05:26.702-07:002014-05-24T18:05:26.702-07:00Yeah, that's one thing I don't quite get. ...Yeah, that's one thing I don't quite get. Unless you're writing a sex scene, why not just wholesale replace a male with a female? I mean, sure, there are stereotypes about femininity, but isn't it even more interesting if said character also doesn't fit that mold?Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-85518195312251363452014-05-24T18:02:10.957-07:002014-05-24T18:02:10.957-07:00Yeah, I agree that change is slow. But at the same...Yeah, I agree that change is slow. But at the same time, video games are behind other media such as literature, television shows, and movies in terms of representation for both women and LGBT.<br /><br />The hiring thing is an interesting question. If you're looking at it purely from a meritocracy POV, I agree with you. If none of those 20% ladies are in the top 20% of the total applicant pool, it makes no sense to hire any of them.<br /><br />The trick here comes from the fact that this is a very creative field. What does the top 20% even mean? I think there's something to be said about diversifying viewpoints when doing creative work, especially given we have the exact opposite currently at Blizzard. Not saying hire 50% ladies, but perhaps a couple more would be useful?<br /><br />The gay rights thing is, unfortunately, something I agree with you to a certain extent. Again, beside the fact that Television clearly is far ahead of Blizzard on this, inclusion is seen as controversial in a non-trivial subset of the population. On the other hand, non-inclusion is starting to be seen as controversial as well. With things like gay marriage being legalized in 18 states now, and already legal in many other countries around the world, especially in the EU, when is the tipping point where it'll be more costly for them to ignore it than to fix it? I don't have the answer there, but it's an interesting question.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-45130065226851227602014-05-24T12:44:17.077-07:002014-05-24T12:44:17.077-07:00"Especially Paragons since worker/soldier ins..."Especially Paragons since worker/soldier insects are basically always female."<br /><br />No, in Mantid lore the only female is the Empress (and a new Empress to replace her) as far as we can tell. We've seen zero indication of any other females.<br /><br />Pretty confident all Paragons are male and it would be very unusual for female soldiers to exist and have none of them become female.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-74857587022590995132014-05-24T04:09:39.425-07:002014-05-24T04:09:39.425-07:00"But it's a struggle for us because the d..."But it's a struggle for us because the diversity within our workplace is unbalanced. "<br /><br />Have to admit I feel that's a total cop out. Literary history is full of men who have managed to write female characters full of personality and flaws. Brecht's Mother Courage managed to get a feminist newspaper named after her in Germany and Shakespeare's Portia has always been one of my favourites.<br /><br />Not to mention that all these male designers must have females in their lives to draw on, mothers, sisters, girlfriends.. My husband is a software designer, albeit in the oil industry rather than the gaming one but he understands what I want from female characters in-game and not just because he has to listen to me ranting every time I feel Blizzard get stuck in Victorian literature bouncing from Madonna to Whore and back again.<br /><br />The other issue for me is that I would imagine that most women who lead armies share many characteristics with their male counterparts, it's just different anatomy. You write a strong character and choose to make it female.Erinyshttp://harpysnest.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-31726045110454113132014-05-23T18:27:36.098-07:002014-05-23T18:27:36.098-07:00Obviously having a more balanced roster of female ...Obviously having a more balanced roster of female and male characters of a wider variety will cause more young women to play games and therefore be interested in game design and will gradually balance out the application pool, but it will take time, and we might not tangibly see its impact for a good 5-10 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-42740921116915854362014-05-23T18:23:41.822-07:002014-05-23T18:23:41.822-07:00Had a huge response typed up but blogspot ate it, ...Had a huge response typed up but blogspot ate it, apparently.<br /><br />Generally agree with most things. <br /><br />Sexist tendancies in gaming are going to die a slow death at best, though. I'm willing to take it at face value when he says there aren't many female applicants, and in an ideal world, you hire the best for the job with zero gender-based descrimination. Hiring 50% men and 50% women from an 80% men and 20% women pool of applications is just as sexist and isn't in the best interests of the company, as those kinds of restrictions will lower the quality of your employee base and ultimately hurt or cause delays in released products. In an industry that's increasingly competitive, that wouldn't be a very smart thing to do.<br /><br />Sexist bias in content specifically is something Blizzard can do a lot to fix. Some thoughts on that:<br /><br />Hearthstone - at least 4 female characters instead of 2, or a male and female option for each class. Tyrande, Vereesa, Alleria or Sylvanas, Garona, Moira, Maiev could surely take up 2 spots.<br /><br />WoW - Need a few more prominent female characters. For the most part, they even already exist, just need some spotlights. Taoshi and Moira are good examples. Just as importantly, there should be more female villains/bosses. A 5:1 ratio in SoO isn't a good thing.<br /><br />StarCraft II - Show off some Jim Raynor butt or chest or cover Kerrigan's rear. Legacy of the Void has potential to be a step in the right direction if it showcases Selendis (or other female protoss) a healthy amount.<br /><br />Can't comment on Heroes of the Storm and Diablo doesn't seem too bad.<br /><br />-----------<br /><br />While I support gay rights, it's a more difficult issue to tackle. Promoting or acknowledging it has a very real side effect of alienating those who are opposed to it. While I ultimately believe that promoting and acknowledging gay rights is the right direction to go, from a business standpoint it's dangerous to take any stance at all (though they did give you the option for The Day Deathwing Came quest in Badlands). There are many members of religious groups and people in general who are opposed to gay rights which, while unfortunate, could cause a lot of lost customers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-29651022331086052822014-05-23T18:02:24.941-07:002014-05-23T18:02:24.941-07:00~20 male boss characters in SoO, only 4 female. S...~20 male boss characters in SoO, only 4 female. Should be about even :P Especially Paragons since worker/soldier insects are basically always female.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-46277421442964033142014-05-23T17:51:13.080-07:002014-05-23T17:51:13.080-07:00Zaela? >.>Zaela? >.>Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-53231331519886583432014-05-23T16:34:37.653-07:002014-05-23T16:34:37.653-07:00In Rob Pardo's words: "But it's a str...In Rob Pardo's words: "But it's a struggle for us because the diversity within our workplace is unbalanced. And it's not because we don't want more women developers, it's just what the industry is. If you look at the industry it is kind of like that and it's very hard to oftentimes just use female game designers as an example, because I hire game designers, I just don't get the applications. So it becomes challenging for us I think."<br /><br />If we give him the benefit of the doubt here, he's not hiring as many female game designers because not as many game designer applicants are female. If this is true, then the way to ameliorate this is to encourage more people from diverse backgrounds to get into the industry, especially writing.Kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04512618793977395998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-43267817660587291902014-05-23T16:25:59.259-07:002014-05-23T16:25:59.259-07:00To be fair, Pardo makes it very clear he is talkin...To be fair, Pardo makes it very clear he is talking just about game design staff because that is the staff he is involved in hiring.<br /><br />If you look at the game design positions currently up on Blizzard's job listings the requirements are pretty high (although what job requirements aren't these days?) and it seems quite plasusible that there isn't a strong hiring base to work from. The games industry has gotten much better in the past 5-10 years at gender issues and the base of women with the kind of experience Blizzard is looking for may be lacking.<br />For reference:<br />http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/careers/posting.html?id=1400008<br /><br />In general, great post. This gets between the hyperbolic rhetoric on both sides.Fierydemisehttp://roguechat.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-10747428639671601872014-05-23T16:16:41.204-07:002014-05-23T16:16:41.204-07:00I will be honest, I did not read closely your arti...I will be honest, I did not read closely your article. I *did* watch the entire Rob Pardo interview. I refuse to get all worked up about this. This is a game. It very occasionally annoys me, but mostly it is fun, and not annoying. I have no intention of bashing Blizzard on PCness. Mary McKinnon (@ngakma) on Twitter.kunukiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11443603019794473193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-20138087717670654842014-05-23T16:13:40.713-07:002014-05-23T16:13:40.713-07:00Ah, sorry, I wasn't clear. I agree with you en...Ah, sorry, I wasn't clear. I agree with you entirely about having to re-teach each generation of workers if you don't hire more diverse staff. The part where it's an excuse is that they aren't hiring more diverse staff. Sure, you don't have many female programmers out there, but there's likely to be plenty of writers/artists, no?Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-35122495067954497932014-05-23T16:12:14.434-07:002014-05-23T16:12:14.434-07:00ROFL, okay, that comic is hilarious, and so true. ...ROFL, okay, that comic is hilarious, and so true. On the other hand, when your entire world is basically at war constantly or on the verge of war, I would expect, "Home Destroyed, Going On rampage" to be a pretty common backstory :)<br /><br />Yeah, I thought about the up in arms about the "being gay makes you evil" thing, but I mean, if we want representation, it really has to be fair. You can't say, "Oh, we want more strong women in games, but oh, they always have to be the good guy!" and expect to be taken seriously. That would be crazy talk.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-79674790681663325572014-05-23T16:11:20.801-07:002014-05-23T16:11:20.801-07:00Well that's just entirely reasonable.
That sa...Well that's just entirely reasonable.<br /><br />That said, I disagree a bit about diversity in the workplace being dismissed as an excuse. The very first thing anyone can do, i.e. "Think about it", I am in complete agreement about, but that's not a permanent change. If every generation of artists has to relearn this-and I can't stress this enough-very valuable lesson, then the problems come right back.<br /><br />Diversify the artists and you get diverse art. This cart-horse issue needs more than a bit of thought.Kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04512618793977395998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-51822662707237091302014-05-23T16:03:50.540-07:002014-05-23T16:03:50.540-07:00This comes to mind: http://wowafr.wordpress.com/20...This comes to mind: http://wowafr.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/afr-286-distaff-dissed/<br /><br />"Some dude trying to take over the world, oh, and footnote, his husband died so that’s why he’s so angry."<br /><br />To be fair, then I imagine some people would be up in arms about how "Blizzard is trying to say being gay makes you evil!"Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.com