tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post8181183383867519412..comments2022-04-11T20:34:56.519-07:00Comments on Gamer By Design: [WoW] Why Rando-Secondary Stats Matter Less Than You ThinkTalarianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-32501710206705656022014-12-24T23:19:31.269-08:002014-12-24T23:19:31.269-08:00I was doing rough math to illustrate the idea, sue...I was doing rough math to illustrate the idea, sue me :) The larger point is that the gem does become relatively worse at a minimum, especially for big budget items.<br /><br />And yes, sockets screw everything up.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-84827099413095475082014-12-23T15:37:02.448-08:002014-12-23T15:37:02.448-08:00That's assuming all secondaries have the same ...That's assuming all secondaries have the same value, which they don't. Since you can always put your best secondary in a gem socket, it elevates the value (though, as Ashunera on Twitter pointed out, the loss of Stamina technically devalues it as well).<br /><br />But yes, that is a good point I forgot to take into account as well. Sockets screw everything up :PTalarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-54409203446908404512014-12-23T14:58:31.042-08:002014-12-23T14:58:31.042-08:00Well, let's assume that 1 primary = 2 secondar...Well, let's assume that 1 primary = 2 secondary for the moment.<br /><br />http://www.wowhead.com/item=109900&bonus=524<br /><br />So that's 278 base. Socket adds 17.5 to get 295.5, warforged is 294.5. Socket is better.<br /><br />Now http://www.wowhead.com/item=113850&bonus=0<br /><br />351 base + 17.5 for socket is 368.5. Warforged is 371. So Warforged is better.<br /><br />Which means for big items like helm/chest/legs the Warforged already wins in normal raids for non-rare gems. For something like neck/ring/cloak/etc (the weakest slots) then gems remain better for much longer.<br /><br />So there's not really a hard and fast rule, depends on the item slot and the quality of the gem.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-67432794372337424262014-12-23T14:52:13.829-08:002014-12-23T14:52:13.829-08:00Possibly, though if you look in the dungeon journa...Possibly, though if you look in the dungeon journal it's clearly not the "X item with random properties." Meh.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-59635565830903119962014-12-23T02:40:29.693-08:002014-12-23T02:40:29.693-08:00I think there's some confusion, as the loot ta...I think there's some confusion, as the loot tables for heroic 5-mans are, maybe not random, but large enough to effectively be random. A boss might drop one of six or seven variations on the same item in 5-mans, whereas in raids it's very much the old way of getting loot, with the exception of sockets/warforged/tertiary. I think that's led some folks to believe that secondaries are randomly rolled.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-11970959816515555462014-12-23T02:38:12.829-08:002014-12-23T02:38:12.829-08:00Purely linear, not lie. Stupid autocorrect.Purely linear, not lie. Stupid autocorrect.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-71811632068683236892014-12-23T02:37:42.915-08:002014-12-23T02:37:42.915-08:00Ah, excellent point. The stats on the item ARE inc...Ah, excellent point. The stats on the item ARE increasing exponentially (even if that exponent is like 1.01 or some such). If it were purely lie we your argument wouldn't hold, but indeed, the amount of stats you get per 15 ilvls increases each tier, so the relative weight of the socket will go down. I guess there's a question of when does it go down enough.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-46982631695705680702014-12-23T02:04:01.891-08:002014-12-23T02:04:01.891-08:00"I am still stuck in my TBC-era mindset where..."I am still stuck in my TBC-era mindset where some degree of gear optimization was possible outside of just hoping you get the right random stats on a piece of gear. "<br /><br />Do you realize that raid items are in fact not random? So (not so much in Highmaul but in BRF) you'll have a choice between two items for a given slot with different secondaries?<br /><br />And speaking as a raider in BC who did half of Sunwell before quitting like half a year before Wrath, there's much more optimization right now in terms of gear than there was then.<br /><br />"You get to choose your enchants/gems still, and as you get gear, you can decide to swap out similar ilvl pieces."<br /><br />This is a huge thing -- and notice how the items you swap when changing specs (neck, cloak, rings) are the items that can be enchanted? That's actually fairly brilliant of Blizzard to make those the enchanted items.<br /><br />"There's no less customization today than there was in TBC (though there is less than there was in, say, Cata)."<br /><br />Assuming you're referring to Reforging?<br /><br />"Are you sure you're just not lamenting your innocence, when you weren't aware that an optimal solution could be mathed out?"<br /><br />I'm going with this, yeah. Even in BC we were mathing out the optimal stuff. I knew as a shadow priest that 1 spellpower = 6 crit...and that was all I needed to know until BT/Hyjal, at which point 1 spellpower = 1 haste = 1 crit. Hit wasn't even a significant factor due to a passive 10% hit which meant we only needed 6%.<br /><br />There was no real depth to it -- in fact, I was using green and blue items "of Shadow Wrath" into Black Temple because they were better than TK/SSC epics.Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-61822106919239401852014-12-23T01:58:15.614-08:002014-12-23T01:58:15.614-08:00"Sockets are worth a good 5 - 7 ilvls on thei..."Sockets are worth a good 5 - 7 ilvls on their own, if not 10 with a rare gem."<br /><br />Keep in mind the power of sockets will keep decreasing. The legendary 616 cape was superior to 630 capes by virtue of the socket -- but if we were comparing a 716 to 730 cape that wouldn't be the case. The percent difference between the two capes stays the same, but the raw amount grows...and the gem stays the same.<br /><br />So right now socketed > warforged, but it won't be long until warforged > socketed (especially for non-rare gems).Balkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12425374556730828853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-59998628439007601712014-12-22T18:06:43.889-08:002014-12-22T18:06:43.889-08:00I mean, there is some optimization to be had. You ...I mean, there is some optimization to be had. You get to choose your enchants/gems still, and as you get gear, you can decide to swap out similar ilvl pieces. There's no less customization today than there was in TBC (though there is less than there was in, say, Cata).<br /><br />Are you sure you're just not lamenting your innocence, when you weren't aware that an optimal solution could be mathed out? <br /><br />Because for healers, while there's an optimal HPS solution, playstyle makes up a huge factor. For tanks, while there's an optimal TMI solution, your role in the raid and your ability to use AM will help determine which are your priorities. For DPS, there's simply a mathematically perfect solution, because DPS is largely so simple from the 10,000 foot level.Talarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17684944568000522986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2814591084344141656.post-91995652553426622192014-12-22T17:14:44.083-08:002014-12-22T17:14:44.083-08:00No disagreement on the power of item levels here. ...No disagreement on the power of item levels here. <br /><br />I am still stuck in my TBC-era mindset where some degree of gear optimization was possible outside of just hoping you get the right random stats on a piece of gear. I personally prefer that system, and I think WoD's approach is a lot less fun even if the difference from stats isn't that big. I miss having a fairly easy, approachable way to better min/max myself!<br /><br />That all did admittedly get out of hand, though.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00289459451344261371noreply@blogger.com